"Cerulean Canvas" Saxophonist Sherman Irby and Momentum

Sherman Irby and Momentum Cerulean Canvas

The Alabama born alto saxophonist Sherman Irby has long valued his association with the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra, having served in its illustrious saxophone section first from 1995-1997 and then rejoining it again since 2005 till the present.

Irby studied music at Atlanta’s Clark University under the direction of Dr. James Patterson and credits trumpeter Danny Harper as an important mentor. Once out of college and living in Atlanta, Irby landed a gig with piano legend Johnny O’Neal, a valuable learning experience. He worked cruise ships and between his stints at the JALCO landed work in groups led by Latin jazz master Papo Vazquez, pianist Marcus Roberts and played in drumming legend Elvin Jones’ last group.

Sherman Irby (photo credit unknown)

Outside of the JALCO, Irby has created his own career as a leader/collaborator and composer. I interviewed the affable saxophonist in March of 2016 which you can link to here. Back then, the ambitious composer in him was very excited about an opera he was working on based on Dante’s Divine Comedy. While being a member of what is perhaps the most famous big band in the country has its own rewards, when I spoke with him, Irby also was excited by his own working group Momentum, a quintet, which he felt was developing into an intuitive powerhouse.

Momentum includes the pianist Eric Reed, the bassist Gerald Cannon, the trombonist Vincent Gardner and the drummer Willie Jones III, all one-time members of the JALCO family. For his latest album, Irby recruited two additional guests, the trumpeter and leader of the JALCO, Wynton Marsalis, and the rising star trombonist Elliot Mason, a current member of the band. On  

Cerulean Canvas, Irby has finally documented this group and in the process created one of the best contemporary straight-ahead jazz albums of the year.

Under the influence of Wynton Marsalis, Irby has become a living proponent of the importance of maintaining the jazz tradition. Irby’s sound is large and full as is the big man’s stature and presence on the bandstand. His tone and attack confirm long and diligent study of some of the great masters that have influenced him. Parker, Stitt, Hodges, McClean, Desmond, Sanborn all have a stake in this man’s playing. Irby has not only mastered the tones and techniques of his elders, he has forged his own distinct voice that is a flawless amalgam of some of the best features of their playing.

More than anyone else, Irby evokes the effusive and glorious sound of altoist Cannonball Adderley. Check out his unadulterated swing on the burning opener “Racine.”  The complex lead line is a straight-ahead marvel of precision between Irby’s searing alto and Gardner’s slippery trombone. This is a challenging composition by Irby, an offering dedicated to bassist Gerald Canon who hails from Racine, Wisconsin and who Irby features on both the intro and coda. After the probingbass intro, the group bolts like a thoroughbred right from the opening gate in marvelous synchronicity.

 “Poppa Reed” is an Irby dedication to his pianist, Eric Reed, whose facile touch is featured on this walking blues. The sparse Count Basie-like piano intro is steeped in the tradition and Irby’s solo is warm and liquid with a Johnny Hodges feel to it. Canon is a very lyrical bassist and we get to hear some of his inventiveness midway through this selection on a thoughtful solo.

The pianist Mulgrew Miller’s “From Day to Day” is a gorgeous emotional composition played to perfection; my top pick off this album and quite possibly one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have heard all year in both lyricism and execution. Reed’s piano is luscious, and Irby’s tone is impeccably articulated, at times Desmond-esque and yet clearly an invention of his own making. His lines are like woven silk threads in a fine tapestry, vibrant in their color, high in tensile strength and yet delicate and smooth in texture. He is joined here by the trombonist Eliot Mason who shows admirable subtly and fine tone. Drummer Jones and bassist Cannon allow the rhythm to float giving Irby a buoyant platform on which to weave his magic.

The hopping “Willie’s Beat aka The Sweet Science” is an Irby tribute to his drummer/cohort Willie Jones III. The song has a nice medium-tempo swing and features Mason on trombone, this time for a more extended solo that is quite enjoyable. Irby again shows how fleet, but never rushed, he can be on his horn, here sounding a little more biting, like Jackie McClean, without ever loosing that swing. Reed does his turn on a nice keyboard feature before drummer Jones is spotlighted with a brief but potent solo.

Another favorite on this album is “Contemplation.” No post-bop recording would be complete without at least one of Wayne Shorter’s tune. Here the dual-line of Irby and Mason are featured on this ballad. Mason is the lead voice and he shows great warmth in his approach to this moody piece. Shorter’s music has a way of changing a musician’s approach to his horn and here you can hear it in the altoists’ more careful, studied playing. Irby’s lines are sparse, more thoughtful, deliberately declaratory, less spontaneous. Reed’s tinkling piano notes are spot on.

The rest of the album shows some interesting diversity in theme. Taking on a song from the more contemporary pop canon like Stevie Wonder’s “Smile” can be a challenge for a jazz musician, but Irby and company turn it into a walking blues. Trombonist Vincent Gardner returns with one of the more abstract compositions on the album, “Blue Twirl: A Portrait of Sam Gilliam,” dedicated to the African- American painter, Sam Gilliam, but even the abstract can be made to swing in the hands of Irby and company. On his most potent display of his Cerulian Blues credentials, Irby plays (as he says in the liner notes) some “…real barbeque music.”  The song, “John Bishop Blues,” a delightful showcase for Mr. Irby to wail on. His tone has the gut-bucket feel of all those blues masters that went before him. He is joined by Wynton Marsalis who offers his own tradition-drenched solo.

As if to give some comic relief, Mr. Irby and Mr. Gardner play an up-tempo version of the song made famous by the Harlem Globetrotters, “Sweet Georgia Brown.” Drummer Jones uses just his sticks to keep the beat as Cannon lays down the bass line and the two horns weave along the melody.

The closer is a Gerald Cannon tune “SYBAD,” dedicated to the memory of longtime JALCO baritone saxophonist Joe Temperley. Marsalis rejoins the group sans a trombonist. The trumpeter takes the first solo and plays a series of cascading lines including some high register reaches before yielding to Irby’s alto solo which roils just under the surface to begin with. As he gets into it, his lines dart in and out, bobbing and weaving like a boxer shifting his weight and stance to avoid incoming blows. Reed’s thoughtful solo changes the mood and is followed by a return to the head at the coda.

On Cerulean Canvas Momentum paint a series of musical portraits that are always engaging and at times quite beautiful with Sherman Irby clearly establishing himself as one of the finest alto saxophonists of his generation. 

Man with the golden horn: Part Two of an Interview with trumpeter/vocalist/ big band leader Joe Gransden

Joe Gransden

Atlanta's Joe Gransden is the archetype of the successful working musician. He is an accomplished trumpet player, a silvertoned vocalist and a consummate entertainer. He has worked hard to establish a stellar reputation as an in demand performer, often working seven nights a week at various local venues. This indefatigable musician can be seen working as both a sideman or most often as a leader in duos, trios, quartet, quintet and big band formats. His tireless drive and his good natured charm has been key to allowing him to operate almost exclusively from his home base in Decatur. Gransden has chosen a life that is not as subjected to the demanding rigors of touring that most travelling musicians must endure to provide economic stability for their families. Joe's desire to create a sustainable career in the Atlanta area has been to the benefit of his followers, those jazz fans who covet great, professionally played jazz without having to go to New York, New Orleans or Los Angeles, and he has consequently garnered a large and loyal following. In the first part of our interview we talked to Joe about growing up in the Buffalo area, his musical family,  his early musical influences and some of his experiences in college and on the road honing his trade as a professional musician, You can link to the first part of the interview by clicking here.

In this part two of our two part interview we learn about Joe's take on several iconic trumpet players, how he met the actor Clint Eastwood, his work with the smooth jazz saxophonist Kenny G., the balance between work and family, his work as a big band leader, his acting ambition and his future projects.

NOJ: Joe we talked about two of your major trumpet influences Allen Vizzutti and Joe Magnarelli. Now let's get your take on some of the major trumpet figures of the genre. I'm sure the trumpet players out there would find your take informative. Let's start with Louis Armstrong.

 JG: He’s affecting me now. I wasn’t into him as a kid.Now I love his tone,his endurance and  his love his phrasing. I put it right up there with Frank Sinatra.

NOJ: His phrasing as a player or as a singer?:

  JG: Both.

                                     

Frank Sinatra and Louis Armstrong

NOJ: What about Miles?

  JG:  Always affected me. Miles laid back sound and his sound. I always tried to copy Miles 

  tone. He was breathy, dark, not necessarily flat but maybe just little on the lower side of the     pitch just to create a little tension.

NOJ: How about Lee Morgan?

  JG: Yeah he affected me a lot. I transcribed a lot of his solos when I was a kid.

NOJ: What is the difference between Lee and Miles approach in your mind?

  JG: Tone first of all. Lee was much brighter and much more soulful in a bluesy way. His articulation was much different from Miles. His eighth notes were very aggressive. He used a lot of hard tongue on some of those notes. Miles was a lot more laid back.

NOJ: What about Dizzy ( Gilespie) ?

  JG: I always appreciated his playing but never really took to him. Wasn’t someone who I wanted to sound like.

NOJ:  How about Freddie (Hubbard)?

  JG: Freddie all day long. Transcribed him, great soloist, can’t play any of them. He was amazing, especially in the sixties, that record that he did with Herbie, Empyrian Isles, all those great tunes. Those CTI records I listened to them a thousand times.

Empyrean Isles

NOJ: Who do you think sounds most like Freddie these days?

  JG:  Jim Rotundi. He sounds like himself, but he also has a lot of Freddie’s phrasing and that ability to change registers so fast and smooth. You can want to sound like Freddie or Dizzy but maybe just not have the chops to do it. Jim’s got those chops.

NOJ: Well Miles never had those chops, but he figured out a way to play that was different than Dizzy but all his own.

  JG: He had chops in other ways that these guys didn’t have so it didn’t matter.

NOJ: Talking about chops how about Maynard Ferguson?

  JG: I just love Maynard. I knew early on I was never going to be that guy, I didn’t want to be     that guy, but God it was so cool. I saw him a lot. I saw him perform live many times and just loved what he could do on that trumpet. Just the fact that found his niche and he is probably one of five guys in the history of the instrument that could constantly play in that register and sound that good. I love Maynard Ferguson.

NOJ: Do you think when you are playing like that and everybody expects that you are going to play that almost unreachable high note, it takes away from the music, the art by becoming just another technical achievement?

  JG: That’s what it is and with the trumpet it is a big deal. I would say ninety-nine percent of the trumpet players would like to be able to play a double high C. If you take that ability and use it right. Maynard’s ability was like a golfer hitting a 400 yard drive. It was amazing to watch but it wasn’t necessarily going to get you all the way to a subpar game. I could always dig him because he had a great band and he was a great improviser. He knew how to sing on the trumpet.

NOJ: What about Kenny Dorham, he was a native of Atlanta?

  JG:   KD became my favorite trumpet player during the time I was playing with Joe Magnarelli because Joe loved him and hipped me to him. One of the records he told me to go out and get when I was dealing with trying to develop my ear was Quiet Kenny and the another was Afro-Cuban. Kenny had a way of articulating that I wanted to be able to develop. He kind of hits the note, scoops down a little and then pitches it back up. When I was doing it back then I sounded like I was trying to be Kenny. When he did it, of course, you could tell it was just him. It was just the way he played a note. He is another one that had that real soulful sound. Only Kenny Dorham has that tone. Love him. 

NOJ: Let’s talk about Chet, you have been compared to him.

  JG: Chet Baker is probably my all-time hero. I think it goes back to my early days when I spoke about how I was so into melody. When I started diving into Chet Baker, I got a record called Diane it came out in 1985. I think it's out of print. It was just him and piano. I would listen to that record all day long. I would sit in bedroom, close my eyes and try to pick out the notes he was playing.

NOJ: Well he was easier to follow, right?

  JG: He was easier to follow. He makes sense and he was never trying to do anything but make music. He wasn’t trying to play high, he wasn’t trying to play fast, he wasn’t really trying to copy anybody except maybe early on. You know you could tell he loved Miles. Chet became my hero, throughout his entire career, seemed like he always stayed pretty true to the music. 

His tone was gorgeous and when he wanted to play fast he could. Man he had just as good a technique as anyone. So he is probably my number one influence?

                  

NOJ: What about Woody Shaw?

  JG: Woody I’m just getting into him now. I was scared of him for a long time. 

NOJ: What was so special and scary about Woody’s playing?

  JG: I think it is just that no body played trumpet like that. All those intervals, all those pentatonic scales. It wasn’t simple melody coming out of his trumpet. It was more.

NOJ: Do you think he was the John Coltrane of the trumpet?

  JG: Yeah. When I heard him play live in 1986, I couldn’t even comprehend what he was doing and it frightened me. Sounded interesting, wasn’t quite for me then, and it is just now forty-five years old and I think what an idiot I am for not adding him to my bag of tricks. Because we all take from these guys we hear and I kind of avoided him, I think I was just afraid of him. 

NOJ:  Blue Mitchell?

  JG: One of my favorites. Tops the King of bebop trumpet playing. Just deep in the pocket swinging. I transcribed one of his records called Blue’s Moods. Love Blue Mitchell.

NOJ: Everyone had to listen to Clifford, right?

  JG: One of the top five of all time. Tone was great. He had kind of an airy tone that could change between bright and dark. His articulation and his ability to navigate the changes was I think incomparable. His ability at such a young age was ridiculous, just like Booker Little.

                                               Clifford Brown

NOJ: Speaking of Booker Little, besides him who are your favorite unsung               trumpet heroes?

  JG: My two favorite are Conte Candoli and Jack Sheldon. Jack and Conte we the guys who, in their time, could have easily become rock stars in their own right but they just got busy in the recording scene and quietly went their own way. Jack did the great trumpet part on "The Shadow of your Smile.” from the movie The Sandpiper. There is no better version of  that song.

NOJ: Let's talk about a more contemporary player like Wynton Marsalis?

  JG: I think he is the top of the top. He is the Tiger Woods, The Muhammad Ali in that he can   play classical, he can play jazz music, he is very soulful. I know early on there were some cats who questioned as whether he had lived enough to considered that great. He is probably in his early fifties now and his chops are in better shape than anyone on the planet. He is a great composer. He is the modern day Louis Armstrong and I have met him many times

and he is about as nice as you can be. I absolutely love Wynton Marsalis.

NOJ:  Let's get back to you. What is your personal practice discipline?

  JG: For most of my life it was like a drug, it was unbelievably powerful. It was all day long. It started with a warm up on the trumpet, playing exercises out of the Arvin book. It was hours of playing along with records once I met Joe and found out that was the way to do it. It never stopped. I would hear something on the radio and immediately try to figure it out. Nowadays, with a child and a family, it’s enough for me to get some maintenance on the horn. I’m working every night playing so it’s on my face every night. As far as learning new things and trying to grow as an artist in the practice room, it’s probably twenty-five percent of what it used to be. I’m just too busy. I always tell students and elders told me when I was younger, get it done now. You got to get it done early and it’s easier to absorb when you are younger. I practice for maybe ten minutes in a dark room free improvising, just to clear my head. But in some respects my life has become so much more than just a professional trumpet player. I am more of an entertainer now. I’m leading this big band, I’m singing, sometimes more than I’m playing.So I have to balance it all and I like it all just as much. 

NOJ: I’ve seen you in a duet, a trio, a quartet and leading the big band. What is your favorite format?

  JG: Small jazz groups are my favorite. However, entertaining a large crowd with the big band, there is nothing like it. The power of the big band is incredible. If the crowd happens to laugh at one of your stupid jokes or if they happen to feel something when you sing, it is really exciting. They react even if you are not a good singer because they hear those lyrics and they relate. It is an interesting balance to try to navigate.

NOJ:  You have been working in the Atlanta area for how long?

  JG: I did college here in 1991-92, went to New York for a few years and came back to Atlanta around 1995-1999 and then back to New York until 2001 then came back and stayed since then.

NOJ: What is it that drives you to maintain such a hectic schedule?

  JG: The obvious answer is money (laughing) and all kidding aside money is a necessary factor, it’s nice to be able to provide for your family. You have got to make a living, but the truth is I wouldn’t keep such a hectic schedule if I didn’t love the music and performing.I am at a place in my career where I could slow down a little bit (Joe often works six or seven nights a week). It’s all the preparation for the gigs, the telephone work, the business of the music that is so draining. Playing is the culmination of all that behind the scenes work.  I have been doing it myself since 2001. I kind of like that Gransden Music LLC is a one owner corporation and I am handling everything from what we will wear for the gig, what time we are going to eat, what songs we are going to play and I have no body breathing down my neck. So I like to put in that extra time to have that control.

NOJ : Tell us about your family and how the put up with the life of a working musician?

  JG: My wife Charissa is a classical flute player and the band director at the Lovett School. it is a private elementary to secondary school here in Atlanta. She is an incredible educator and has been named teacher of the year on several occasions. She gets the life of a musician. She is a musician so there is no problem there. For my six-year-old son Joseph, it can sometimes be a little challenging that daddy is not there to put him to bed or wrestle with him. I look at it like this, if I was a full time musician on the road, I might be away for six or seven months at a time, but I have been able to sleep in my own bed nine maybe ten months out of the year. So if I don’t get to put him to bed one night, I’m having breakfast with him in the morning. Or I’ll pick him up from school and we will have a couple of hours together. So the hard work that I have put in is great, I can make a living here in Atlanta.

If something comes along that says go to this city to perform, if the situation was right it would be no problem. 

NOJ:   When did you realize you wanted to both sing and play?

 JG: When I was playing at Veni Vidi Vici here in Atlanta in 1998. We were making fifty dollars each. It was me and Neal Starkey on bass and Bill Anschell on piano. Bill now lives in Seattle. We did every Sunday and every Wednesday and we got three months into the gig when the manager said "Everybody loves your band, but you have got to have a singer here." I said “Alright give me another fifty bucks and I ‘ll get you a singer.” He said “I can’t give you any more money,” so I said “How am I supposed to hire a singer?” So he said “Well I guess I'll just have to get another band that has a singer. “ So I said “Well I sing”and he said “Great, next Sunday you start singing.” I ran home and talked to my dad and asked him to show me some songs, because he was a great singer and knew all the songs. The following week I sang in my shaky voice and as soon as I started to sing people would look up and pay attention. I could see that the lyrics made a difference. That’s where I met my friend Bob Weiner who would later produce several of my albums. He used to come in and see us play and loved our music. He was a fan and he really helped my career and he is a good friend today.

NOJ: Who are your singing models and why?

 JG:  Frank Sinatra first for his phrasing. I love Ray Charles soulful way of singing and every once in awhile I’ll try to do a little of that in my vibe and when it works it feels so good, sometimes it doesn’t work, but it is fun to try. I just noticed when I try too hard to do something it only comes across as trying and when I don’t try it comes across more authentic.

NOJ: What about a guy like Chet Baker? Was he a singing inspiration?

  JG:  I love his tone and I love his ability to sing quietly but effectively without ever raising his voice. He never tried to do anything but get the melody across.

NOJ:  How about a singer like Billy Eckstine? Was he much of an influence?

  JG:  My mother loves Billy Ekstine, I don’t have a lot of his records, but I really enjoyed Joe Williams, Mel Torme and Nat King Cole. These days Kurt Elling is just killing. Gregory Porter is another monster singer.

There is an old record called In the Wee Small Hours of the Morning, Sinatra and strings, and it was recorded not too long after he and Ava Gardner split up. He was really hurting on this record and it’s all ballads. For a good many years, when I was being hired more as a singer than a trumpet player for corporate parties and events, I noticed that my singing was taking me further and making me more money and drawing more and more attention.  So every day I would practice to that record one side every day. I would sing note for note with Frank and practice his phrasing, and try to hold the notes the way that he did. I couldn’t hold the notes the way he did and I can hold a note on the trumpet because I circular breathe, so I couldn’t understand it. I was breathing incorrectly for singing and I eventually learned how to do that by mimicking Frank and it allowed me to be more creative with my singing.

NOJ: You have maintained a working big band now for seven years. How hard is it too keep such a disparate group of top notch musicians together?

 JG: The big band? It is extremely difficult, its painstakingly difficult its losing sleep difficult. Because they are so good and they are so busy with their own careers. It has gotten to the point now where I can pay them enough for them to show up- I can’t pay them what they are worth- but in the beginning we would have to split the money that would be barely adequate for a quintet amongst seventeen guys. Now we are busy enough that everyone is making more and getting a taste, most of the time, not all the time. Sometimes we do something for less if we think it will lead to something else. Now we are constantly dealing with subbing out because these guys are playing gigs with other people, so that’s always an issue. It’s is also seven years later now from when we started this band and most of the guys have families, kids and responsibilities. It’s tough.

 NOJ: What intrigues me is how you guys keep the tightness of a great big band when you obviously don’t get a chance to practice together on a regular basis. It is not like the old days when the bands traveled together for months at a time and lived and eat and slept together as a unit. How does this work now?

JG: In the old days the bands were like a family. It was in many respects a very difficult life. I know what you are talking about though, even when I started this band seven year ago, how difficult it could be to try to keep a group together, get practice space, manage a sound system and run around and book gigs. So that is why I got the gig at John Scatena’s Café 290 on the first and third Monday every month. We get paid a little bit, we play in front of a live audience which is good for the nerves, and we can try out new stuff. Wes Funderbunk, who plays lead trombone, arranges most of our charts, although some of the other guys are now arranging also. If I was going to do this gig I wanted to do it on a Monday night, like they do in New York, which is usually when nobody has a gig.  So that is our chance, twice a month to rehearse. If we crash and burn once in a while the crowd is so great we all just laugh and have a wonderful time. We get a thirty minute warm up before the show and we can get a lot accomplished in thirty minutes so it works. John Scatena has been extremely helpful and he has stuck with us all this time.

  

NOJ: How do the economics of a big band work in today’s market which is generally unkind economically to musicians?

 JG: Not very well. It is very difficult. I know Harry Connick Jr's band is down to five horns and he can charge pretty much what he wants. It is very difficult to have sixteen to eighteen musicians plus stage assistance to put a big band on the road. It would be almost impossible without a big name like Michael Buble or Harry Connick Jr.  or whoever tit is that can demand enough money to pay the guys. On the other hand in a local setting like the Southeast it is doable. It is doable to go to South Florida for one night and get paid enough to make it worthwhile.  But economically, if I was smart, it would be  more economically viable with  a six-piece band, but I also do that also, so the big band is something special.  If people want the big band for an event there are few people doing that.

NOJ: Are you playing weddings with the big band?

JG: Sure, we play a lot of concerts now. It used to be ten percent concerts and the rest would be corporate parties and weddings now it is like fifty percent concerts. We play at performing art centers, at clubs like the Blue Note. So no one else is really doing what we do in the South east.

NOJ:  The trombonist Wes Funderburk has been the principal arranger for your big band music. How and where did you meet Wes and how did he start arranging for the large ensemble?

   JG: I met Wes years ago at Georgia State University. We played in the jazz band there and played in countless settings over the years. We have always been friends and he has always been a talented arranger, but he really started to pour it on more in the early two thousand’s . With this band, as much as I wanted to play the stock arrangements of the old days to kind of pay tribute to that sound, I also wanted the band to have it’s own sounds. Since I don’t arrange for big bands, I had the option of going to someone who was well known for arranging or getting a guy that is in the band, who knows the abilities of each musician, who knows my abilities as a singer and a musician and who can arrange. That is why I said Wes you got to be the guy. He loved it. Early on, the first three or four years, he was writing like crazy and I would go over his house twice a week saying “yeah I love that," or "take that out, I can’t sing that.” Now he knows me so well that and I know him so well , we have such a great working relationship that all I have to do is say is I need an arrangement on this tune, with this tempo, this beat and he doesn’t have to ask me anything its always just right.

                                              Wes Funderburk

NOJ: Did Wes have any mentors and if not who does he pattern himself after as an arranger?

   JD: I know he loves Nelson Riddle, Billy May, but I really never had a long conversation with him about that. As a trombone player he loves JJ Johnson, Bill Watrous.

                                      Nelson Riddle and Frank Sinatra

NOJ: Do you want to pursue composing more of your own music or is that something that doesn’t interest you?

    JG: It is on my plate. It does interest me, I just have to make the time for it.  I do want to record an album of all originals in the next couple of years. I have written a handful of songs. I don’t focus on that and sometimes I am bothered by that, but I have had many musicians say to me you can’t do everything.

NOJ: The sound of a truly well-oiled big band is like no other. You are taken yours to the Blue Note Jazz Club in NYC next week July 11, 2016 . I know it’s not your first time there, but it must be exciting to be given the opportunity to play this famous club once again. Tell us about the whole experience.

 JG: It is an amazing experience. This will be our fourth time so the unknown factor has sort of been removed. Every time we play the club for some reason we follow The Dizzy Gillespie All Star Big Band, they play Tuesday through Saturday and then we play Monday. So we have big shoes  when we go up there. Actually playing at the club is unbelievable. You get on that stage and you realize the history of that place, everybody has been on that stage. When you get here you think oh it’s a little club, but then you go in the dressing room and you think who else has been in this dressing room? You get on that stage and they announce your name and New York City so it’s always a great crowd. The house is usually big and they turn the lights on and it’s a feeling of magic and energy that is hard to explain. For us, we work so hard with this big band, it’s like a retreat, once a year..

NOJ:  I guess it’s almost like validation of some sort.

   JG: Yeah I think it is. We are playing the Blue Note, they are asking us to play this place. They know the financial risk.  They know it is hard for us. They have given me the option bringing in a smaller group, but they love the big band. We fly up, we go to dinner in Little Italy, it is just an awesome experience. 

NOJ:  It seems like you have generally avoided teaching as a supplement to your musical career? Do you  teach now?

   JG: I do teach. I teach privately at my studio at my house. I have between five to eight students a week. I only take very serious musicians, mostly take jazz trumpet players and I enjoy it.  I always said that I wasn’t going to let teaching get in the way of my performing. My wife who is a great flute player is one hundred percent dedicated to the education of her students, that is what she wants to do. If she was offered to play principal flute in some symphony I am sure she would say no. She would much rather help kids further their education musically. It’s not that I don’t want to help kids further their education, but it is just that my brain is wired to want to be on stage. As far a later in life would I be interested in teaching, I think I would be for sure.

NOJ: As if your musical endeavors are not enough you are also pursuing a career in acting. How did that come about? 

   JG: It was actually at the Blue Note. When I first met Clint Eastwood everybody started razzing me saying you are going to start make movies. On many occasions, because he liked Chet Baker so much and knew him, I asked him if  he had ever considered making a movie about Chet’s life? He said he definitely would be interested, but that he had never seen a screen play that he liked. So  myself and two other people wrote a screen play about Chet’s life. It took us two years and right about when we were ready to present it. this movie with Ethan Hawke comes out so that was that.

Back to the Blue Note, it was about three years ago. A guy came up to me after the show, he was getting ready to start a movie and asked me had I ever done any acting. So I said yeah, I totally lied. So I went to Jersey somewhere and took a screen test for this movie. He didn’t give me the  part, but he did say I think you can do this. Go back to Atlanta for six months and take some acting lessons, study and come back. I did just that. I studied with Shannon Eubanks, great actor, great coach. So I went back six months later and re-did the screen test and he gave me the part. It was a great movie and I was going to play the part of the best friend of the lead actor, and I had tons of lines and a lot of scenes. I was going to be very much over my head. But the film ran into financial and ownership problems, and unfortunately, to this day, the movie was never made. It is still on hold.

NOJ: Tell us how you got introduced to Clint Eastwood and where that relationship has taken you?

                                        Joe Gransden and Clint Eastwood

 JG: Clint I met maybe thirteen years ago. I have a friend in town who has produced a few of my cds. He loved my music and would tell me that I needed to get my music in front of people in the entertainment business. He told me to write a letter to Clint Eastwood and that he would get it to him. I thought he was crazy, but I did what he asked and sent a copy of one of the cds my friend  helped produce.  About a month later I got a call from Clint’s wife who said they had received the letter and the cd and that they would love for me to come to Carmel and play a party that they had coming up.  I fly there and picked up some local musicians from the area to play at this member party for his golf club. I stayed an extra two days and played golf with Clint and hung out and we talked about Gerry Mulligan and Chet Baker.  He knew them back in the day, and it was great. We really hit it off in the sense that we both were into this music. That turned into many subsequent appearances at various functions for him and people he knew. I got to play along with Glen Campbell and Huey Lewis and Kenny G. That’s how I meet Kenny G. When the gig was over Kenny liked my playing and asked me to come to his house in Malibu and write a smooth jazz record together. At the time, I was more of a purist. The next day I was playing golf with Clint and told him that Kenny G wanted  me to do a record with him and I asked him should I do  it? He told me “What are you nuts, of course.” So that’s how I got to work with Kenny G. We did this record called Close to My Heart. Since then I have been friends with Kenny. Clint has influenced my career so much.

NOJ:  How did you overcome the reticence that you must have had to play this formulaic smooth jazz that Kenny is so famous for?  

   JG:  There were a number of reasons. One was it gave me a chance to be on a major stage. Secondly I liked him. He was a wonderful person to be around. I was hanging out with him a  little while at his house in Malibu and the guy is an amazing musician. I’d play him little riffs that I picked from listening to Freddie or someone, and if he liked it he would listen to it and pick it right up. These were the same things that took me months to pick up. So I could see he 

was a talented musician. Whether you’re a fan of his or not, the guy can play a melody. He has found a niche for himself and over a hundred million people have bought his records, so a lot more like him then don’t. I love him. When I get to play with him and his band it’s so professionally done. I am fully aware that when I  play this music it’s not the same as when I play really swinging jazz, but that’s true of a lot of pop music.

                                             Kenny G and Joe Gransden

I’m working on a pop song that is coming out soon, with the smaller section of my big band. Kipper Jones wrote this song for me it’s a great tune it’s called “Go Getta.” I think it could be a hit for us, but when we were recording this song, it was different from my usual gig. It was like what you’re talking about, maybe a bit more formulaic, more about let’s put the chorus here, or how can we make this a hit, or this section is too long for people’s attention. It was very little about creating and improvising in the studio and I didn’t take this as being a 

negative thing. What we were doing was a different side of music. Kenny G is the top of this side and Wynton Marsalis is the top of the other side and you can’t really compare those two musicians because they are both great at what they do.

NOJ: What new projects do have coming up after the Blue Note gig?

JG: As I said, the biggest thing is getting this pop tune out ,“Go Getta,” and releasing it at the right time and possibly producing a small, short video for it. We just converted from paper charts to all electronic charts on individual foot operated I pads for the big band. That was a huge project that has taken six months to get it where it is.

I also want to be a recording with the big band in the studio with a live audience, maybe thirty or forty people and I want to record the music like the old day. The big band and me right there in front of this audience. It might even make this a “Go Fund Me” type project. We as musicians are always working in and out of the studios, but I think it would be cool for some of the people who like the band and want to contribute to this project to get a chance to experience the recording studio atmosphere. It is a lot of pressure to have to sing and play live on a record it because there are no retakes, but I think we are ready for it.

NOJ: Got any anxious thoughts about the Blue Note gig?

  JG:  I have one. I ‘m going home after this to practice this new song that Clifford Brown wrote for his wife. It is called “La Rue” it is a ballad that Clifford wrote and this guy Rich Pullen wrote the lyrics to it and it has never been played. Bobby Shew turned Pullen on to me and he thinks I would be perfect to sing this. It is a Clifford Brown melody which is to say it is a trumpet melody and it is  difficult to sing. It’s a beautiful ballad so I’ll do my best, but we will premiere it at the Blue Note so I’m a little revved up about that.

NOJ: Any words of wisdom for any up and coming musicians who may be reading this?

  JG:  The most important thing as a musician is putting in the time early, practicing so that the technique is second nature and do the homework to listen to what came before you. If you love it, you have got to pursue it. Also learn to sight read well. The musicians that work the most are the musicians that can sight read the best.

NOJ:  Thanks Joe and good luck at the Blue Note.

Big Man with a Big Horn : An Interview with Saxophonist Sherman Irby

Sherman Irby's Big Mama's Biscuits

If you have ever had a chance to catch Wynton Marsalis’ Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra “live”, it’s a good bet you have seen the larger than life presence of Sherman Irby upfront in the saxophone section. He is the one who envelopes his alto saxophone with a grizzly bear embrace, making the instrument look almost toy-like in his hands. A superb musician who has a soulful, fluid sound and an innate sense of swing, his bellowing laugh and cheerful personae are just two other reasons to enjoy this affable personality.

Irby grew up in Tuscaloosa, Alabama where gospel and blues made up the predominant music of his early childhood. Making the leap from a teenager playing Gospel in the Reverend James Cleveland’s band to a front line player in the JALC orchestra jazz is a tale best told by the man in his own words. I interviewed Mr. Irby by phone on February 5, 2016 while he was touring with the JALC band in Europe. He spoke to me while he walking the streets in France just after a gig.

.

Sherman Irby (photo credit unknown)

NOJ: Sherman, thank you for calling and interrupting your busy schedule while touring in Europe, I appreciate it. 

First let's start with where you grew up, Tuscaloosa, Alabama arid what got you interested in music?

SI: Well I grew up with Gospel and blues being the predominant influences that I was listening to in early childhood. By ninth grade I was influenced by two teachers who both played trumpet. One was a big Miles Davis fan and the other a Freddie Hubbard follower so that was a good foundation for jazz.

NOJ: What about the Muscle Shoals sound did that influence at all?

SI: Not really that music was further North and so it really wasn't an influence for me. One of my high school teachers, Dr. Thompson, his brother played in Muscle Shoals a lot, he was a saxophone player, but only heard him once. I played with the reverend James Cleveland (known as the King of Gospel) when I was in high school so that was a strong pull on me early on.

NOJ: What made you choose the alto? 

Grover Washington Jr's Mister Magic

SI: I heard Grover Washington. My aunt had the Mister Magic record and 1 looked at the cover and 1 liked it. Grover Washington was everywhere at that time. You could hear his playing Winelight on "One Life to Live" or "General Hospital" and he would be playing in the background. I just decided "the alto please." I started to learn all his solos when he played songs and all of that, but when I heard Bird that changed my whole vibe.

NOJ: When was that?

SI: That was in the eleventh grade. I heard him on the college radio station. University of Alabama had a radio station that would play jazz like at one o'clock in the morning. I heard Bird play the "52nd St. Theme" "and that just blew my mind. I never heard the alto played like that.

NOJ: So your first influence was Grover then came Bird. That is sort of a reverse history.
                                                 
SI: Yeah, because of the time, those sounds are what pulled me in. That is what you heard like David Sanborn who was also a big influence of mine back then. When I got to see Grover, I told him how much of an influence he was on me.

NOJ: He was great. He was mainstream, but more than mainstream, he bridged the gap.

SI: Oh yeah he was the real deal. I love him.

NOJ: You got into Bird, what about another altoist like Cannonball Adderley. I know you did an album, Work Song—Dear Cannonball? 

Sherman Irby's Work Song-Dear Cannonball

Cannonball Adderley (photo credit unknown)

SI: Yeah, I mean who doesn't play alto and love Cannonball Adderley. Cannonball is the man. I like the swing feel that he plays. The way he uses harmonies, especially after he played with Miles and 'Trane and the band. They just started trading and learning from each other. The way he approached it was very interesting.

NOJ: So he came from Florida, but you never heard him growing up?

SI: Not at all. That wasn't until college when I got a chance to listen to his recordings.

NOJ: What about Jackie McLean?

SI: I heard Jackie McLean when I was in college. I heard him in I believe it was Piedmont Park (Atlanta). I remember he donned the stage; he had a white suit on. I think Freddie (Hubbard) was supposed to be on the gig with him, but Freddie didn't show up. He played the whole gig by himself. Cedar was playing piano, Billy Higgins (on drums), I don't know who it was on bass, it might have been David Williams. Hearing him play that alto, I had to meet him afterwards, and his son Rene was so cool with me. We walked around town together,he told me a bunch of stories, and we had a real understanding. Jackie gave me a book with his warm up that I still use, that I teach kids today. A warm up that really changed my sound.

NOJ: So Jackie did influence you? 
  

Jackie McLean (photo credit unknown)

SI: Oh yeah sure.

NOJ: So now I'm hearing Grover and David and Cannonball and Bird and Jackie. What about outlier altos like Lee Konitz?

SI: Yeah I heard Lee a little bit later. See I like Paul Desmond. In high school that is what I affiliated with jazz until I heard Bird. I liked the way Paul Desmond's sound was, I mean I studied classical saxophone, and there was something about his sound. He used a vibrato more like Donald Sinta and Eugene Rousseau who I listen to a lot. So I dug him. Really and truly during and after college my main influences were trumpet players- Dizzy Gillespie, Kenny Dorham and Donald Byrd. Donald Byrd was first, and then Kenny Dorham and Dizzy just kind of took over. They had such command of harmony and rhythm and soul. I had to get some of that.

NOJ: Where did you go to college?

SI: I went to Clark Atlanta University. I studied under Dr. James Paterson, a saxophone player.

NOJ: I just moved to Atlanta from the Northeast and recently did an interview with Gary Motley from Emory University.

SI: That's my man.

NOJ: Clark has that radio station,WCLK(Clark Atlanta Jazz Radio) that many local people are apparently moanin' about because it changed its format and now plays a formulaic playlist. Are you familiar with that?

SI: it's frustrating. I'll tell you how it was. That was the place for us, guys who were learning jazz at Clark. There was a DJ or he was a program director, his name was Bobby Jackson. Bobby Jackson was originally from the Cleveland Ohio area, he came to Atlanta and had a big influence on us young jazz musicians who really didn't know anything. I used to come by his radio station during his show. He would say to me "take a record." I would pick a record, he would say "read it out loud, read it and now give me the record and I am going to play some tunes for you." "You need to know who Ernie Henry was; you need to know who Donald Bird was." and so on. I learned so much from that man.

NOJ: Interesting a DJ?

Bobby Jackson

SI: That's right a DJ and I'm finding out there is a lot of musician; out here who have also learned from them in every city that they went to.

NOJ: Since you studied here in Atlanta I know you know that the area has many music schools and jazz programs in the area like Clark where you went but also, Emory, Kennesaw State and Georgia Tech to name a few. But the sad truth is there are so few places for these student musicians to play.

SI: It's so different when I was there; things were starting to breakdown at that time. Russell Malone was there, we talk about it all the time. There were older musicians there who would stay on you and cuss you out. They would make sure you would learn the right stuff. My greatest teacher was Danny Harper; he is still there. He is a trumpeter who teaches at Miles College in Birmingham, Alabama, but still lives in Atlanta. Danny taught me so much about the music and about what being a jazz musician was all about. about having the integrity to play the music.

NOJ: After college how did you progress as a musician? What was your trajectory?

SI: I had received my degree in music education, but I didn't want to teach at the time. Personally I thought that if I started at a band program like at a school I would probably still be there now thirty years later, because that is usually how it happens. I start working at a parking lot, parking cars and doing valet parking. At night time I was playing in Atlanta and I landed a gig with Johnny O'Neal the piano player. Taurus Mateen the bassist who now plays with Jason Moran, and used to play with Freddie(Hubbard). So he told Johnny about me. He told me to come and play and Johnnie's going to love you. So I came and played and Johnny said "you are part of the band." That was a step in my education. That was in 1992. I graduated Clark in 1991.

Johnny O'Neal

NOJ: So that was your first working gig?

SI: Yeah that was my first true working gig. I left there as the scene had changed, places started closing up. "Jeff's Jazz," that was a great jazz club in Atlanta, closed down. Johnny O'Neal left and I needed work, so a friend of mine called me and told me about the cruise ships, he said he could get me in on that. So I went down to Florida and I started working for Carnival Cruise.

NOJ: Plus you must have been exposed to and played with so many guys, right?

SI: I met so many guys my friend Andre Rice, who I went to college with, he is still with the Basie band. There were a lot of guys there, that's how I met Russell Gunn. I remember when he left to go to New York and join the big band Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. So I used that time to study on the cruise ships. I needed to prepare myself, I wanted to come to New York. I studied tunes, I studied style I worked on my clarinet and my flute. Just trying to get focused and ready, save a little money and be ready for New York. I came to new in 1994.

NOJ: Is that when you came to join the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra?

SI: No I came with no gig. I came here and was completely broke within two weeks. I heard musicians at "Smalls" and I got in and started playing and started to get a reputation.

NOJ: At "Small's" you were playing in the trio and quartet format right?

SI: Yeah trios, quartets, jam sessions everything under the sun.

NOJ: That was more like hard bop going on?

SI : Yeah mostly and original compositions too. We were playing off each other's tunes. It was a real leaning and sharing of information that was going on there. That was 1994 basically to 1995. In the middle of 1995 I joined the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. I did some gigs with Wynton (Marsalis) and I joined the band and I did that for two and a half years. Off time I was still playing at "Small's" and other clubs in the area. I then left that band to join Roy's Hargrove) band. That was an experience. That was probably the best musical experience I ever had, especially in a small group setting nothing even to compare to that. In that band we had Gerald Cannon on bass, Willie Jones III on drums and Larry Willis on piano along with me and Roy. There were other variations in the very beginning, Ron Blake was still there, and we had a long period of time when Frank Lacy was with us.

NOJ: What kind of music were you playing then?

SI: I hate to put a label to it, but mainly hard bop but anything from bebop, to hard bop and even some funk to it at the end. It was mainly a vision that Roy had, kind of based on what Cedar Walton was doing, everybody was kind of following that mood at the time. After that I was fortunate to join, at the end, Elvin Jones’ band. He had Carlos McKinney on piano, Gerald Cannon on bass, Mark Shim on tenor and sometimes Delfeayo Marsalis on trombone. Then I started to do more things on my own. I was with Blue Note records for a while. I was doing gigs and started playing with Papo Vasquez and his Mighty Pirates Troubadours, another completely different experience. Papo is one of the Latin Jazz all-stars. He played with everybody from Dizzy Gillespie's United Nation's Orchestra to Tito Puente for many years. He has done all kind of stuff. He is a true master; he plays trombone in the band. When Duane Eubanks left I took over his spot. I played with Elvin at his last gig at Yoshi's in California. That was in 2004.

NOJ: Did you guys record anything with Elvin?

SI: No. We were supposed to go to Japan and come back and play the Blue Note in New York and he passed away before that. He was my heart. He used to like to pick me up all the time, the biggest guy in the room he liked to pick them up.

NOJ: You are a big man and when you hold that little alto you like smother that horn. You remind very much of Cannonball with the way he almost bear-hugged his horn. You have a lot of soul coming out of that horn.

SI: Thank you.

NOJ: Tell me about your experience with the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra?

SI: It was something else. There is nothing else like it in the world. We played music from all different styles. You find out how great this music is by playing all the different scores we play. You get to understand how great a musician Don Redmond was, you get to realize how killing Benny Goodman's band really was. You understand the writing style and artistry of Duke Ellington and what he was able to accomplish in his life. You understand the history of the music arid how it relates to what we were doing in the nineties and how it relates to the future. The more you study the past the more you understand where you have been and where you are going. It's been the biggest education for me, not only are you playing with the best musicians in the world-most all of them have been leaders in their own right- but we all come together to do this. Most of us actually arrange and do a great deal of the music for the band.

NOJ: So it is more organic and less repertoire?

SI: Yeah it never stops. Right now I am trying to finish my ballet (based on Dante's Inferno) that I started in 2013. We performed the first act in 2013 and now we are looking at finishing the next two acts and performing those. Ted Nash is putting out another big project he did called "the Presidential Suite." There is a lot of things like that that propels the music for yard while still swinging and deep in the blues. It is like an experience of a lifetime to be able to do all of that.

NOJ: What is it like to play in a big band as a section player as opposed to play as a solo artist in front of your rhythm section in a smaller format? 

Saxophone Section of JALC

SI: In the big band you are playing the music as it is written in front of you, but you are communicating with people all across the bandstand and finding your place within it. It is like life, you are on this big Earth and you are part of it and what you do affects everybody else. You're trying to find your space within that but to groove with everybody else so we achieve a common goal of Peace and Love. It's that kind of feeling. So you are part of a community of people just trying to go in the same direction and it's hip. The economics has made it harder to hear this sound and develop this. It is a shame that that has become an issue. I am glad that we are able to do it and we are starting to inspire more and more people to start groups and do more big bands. It's good for the music. The music was started with it — the bands of Count Basie and Duke Ellington- before all these small groups got going it was the big bands that started that sound. We need that now so I am glad I am part of that now. 

NOJ: I just did a piece that featured three big band albums and demonstrated how they were ushering in a new era of big band music. It's interesting to see this despite the economics.

SI: The music was built and flourished during the depression, so we can make things work when there isn't a lot of money. We have to have the verve to do it.

NOJ: Right know we are speaking to you and you are in France with the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra. Is this a European tour?

SI: Yes, we are on a six-week tour that will take us throughout Europe and then we are on to Australia and New Zealand.

NOJ: That is quite a whirlwind and then you come home and will be playing with your own group at Dizzy's in New York?

SI: I am coming back on the thirteenth of March. Then I have a week off and then we play Dizzy's March 24th through the 27th. I start the gig on my birthday March 24th. I will be forty-eight so it should be fun. I'm trying to slow down this year. 

NOJ: Who will be playing with you on that gig?

SI: Eric Red will be on piano, Gerald Cannon on bass, Willie Jones s III on drums and Vincent Gardner on trombone. It is a band that I started doing the music of Art Blakey. We did a three-night stand at Dizzy's about three years ago. It is an unusual style because its alto and trombone and I like the way it works. Vincent has that thing so it works. I'm going to stick with this band, we call it "Momentum" and we are going to keep it going.

NOJ: Are you writing more? You mentioned you’re still working on your ballet.

SI: Yes, I am doing a lot of writing, actually I’m going back to my room now and continue working on the ballet. For the gig in March I am going to write most of the music for that featuring the band. With the big band I am finishing the ballet which is based on Dante's Divine Comedy. We performed the Inferno already and I am working on Purgatory and Paradise. We are talking about releasing the whole finished work in the next two years.

NOJ: I let you get back to your hotel and off the streets. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you.