 |
| Gary Motley |
We talked to Mr. Motley at length on December 8, 2015 in Emory Village. Our discussions touched on of the value of the Arts in education, the development of jazz from its roots, the potential of music as an international form of communication, the state of the industry for young jazz musicians, his own personal musical goals and his latest album Departure. Here is Part Two of that interview.
Part One can be accessed by clicking here.
NOJ: You are now an
educator. When did you start teaching music?
GM: Nineteen ninety-five.
NOJ: What brought you to teaching?
GM: I came home and was kind of a little disenchanted with
being on the road. I wanted to take a break from it. When I came home, one of
the guys at a local University said he needed somebody to teach a class on
improvisation, and asked if I would do it? That is how I started teaching a class at Georgia State
and that grew to a couple more classes. Eventually I got a call from Emory to teach an improv
class here and that just started to
build. In 2002, I had re-married, and my wife and I were thinking about
going back to graduate school. I called
my contacts at Georgia State and they offered me a chance to go there tuition
free if I would teach for them. It was an offer I couldn't refuse, so I did that and completed my Masters in program
administration at Georgia State. When I graduated, I had acquired the skills
to build a new program here at Emory where I started the current full blown
jazz studies program since 2004.
NOJ: How many students are currently enrolled in your
Jazz Studies Program at Emory?
GM: About forty students.
NOJ: Are they all music majors?
GM: No. Usually
double majors and non-majors because we are liberal arts college, so they are usually
doing music and business or music and pre-med or music and some other major.
NOJ: How many of
those students are serious musicians, who want to make music their career?
GM: Not many. I
have maybe five majors in my current group, but because it’s liberal arts the
curriculum, is basically a two year curriculum as prescribed by the
National Association of Schools and Music. That is the maximum that I can offer a
student in the Liberal Arts setting. If they want to pursue music as a profession, I have to steer them
somewhere else, like NYU, Berklee, NEC ,a school of music or a conservatory. So the
big thing that I do here is make sure
they have a healthy appreciation for music, because you never know if these students are the ones
that may wind up lobbying on Capitol Hill or something like that. I give my students a chance to see what this
music world is all abou. I bring in artists so that they can get a chance to
talk with them and get some insight into the world of the jazz musician.
NOJ: With my admittedly limited time down here in Atlanta,
my perception is that the area is not as embracing an environment for jazz
music, which I consider tantamount to African American classical music, as I
would have expected. There seems to be a greater interest in neo soul and Hip
hop. Why do you think that is?
GM: I think it’s awareness. It also may come from people
wanting to distance themselves from this music.
NOJ: Why is that?
GM: I don’t know, but maybe there is a stigma there. Like the
people who resented Louie Armstrong and that kind of thing ( Armstrong was
famously ostracized for being viewed as
too pandering at one time). There was the Harlem Renaissance thing that was a game changer. People started
to redefine their whole idea of affluence and success. So certain people wanted
to distance themselves from it (jazz) and what they thought it represented.
NOJ: But then many people wanted to preserve the tradition.
GM: Those who know
what time it is, yes. The amazing thing about this music is what it was born out of.
It is not a pretty history,let’s face it, but we are talking about people who
under less than ideal situations had to figure out how to co-exist. A beautiful thing emerged out of that coming
together, because that is what it is. Somebody asked me the question: “Who does jazz belong to? Who owns
jazz?” Well nobody and everybody.
NOJ: That’s interesting because if you go back and see how
jazz developed in New Orleans, the place that many people view as the birthplace of
jazz, the music came out of a melting
pot of Spanish, Caribbean, Creole,
African and traditional European influences through classical musical education.
GM: This is art. It is really valuable art. If you look at
all of the things that came out of that; you look at music, dance the whole
thing is ingenious to me. Everything
that was associated with community was stripped away for these people. They had
to learn a different language, learn different customs learn a different way of
thinking, a different way of worshipping. They had to assimilate a new culture and these outside influences were being
forced on them. People trying to survive had to find creative ways to fit in
and communicate.
In the African culture, drums were used as a means of
communication, but drums were taken away (from the slaves.) You’re from a different culture and you are used to instruments that you play
to communicate your music and all of a sudden somebody shows you a piano. What are you supposed to do with that? There
is this twelve fixed pitches from this tuning system developed by some cat
named Pythagoras. Well they can’t find the notes they were used to playing because their music was microtonal (between
the twelve tone scale) .
NOJ: Yeah microtonal playing is quite the rage in some
circles.
GM: When you hear the slurs and bends that you hear being
used in the blues on piano, that’s being done because those notes don’t exist
on the keyboard. You have to combine them to get to the sounds. So I’m looking for this note and it is not an F and it is not an F# it is somewhere in between. So you have to slur to bend this
thing to get to that sound. Now if I am singing I can get to that because my voice is
capable of many pitches. So I get into this technique to get to those sounds.
Then you get into the pedantic argument is that sloppy technique? Well obviously no it's
not.
NOJ: Not if it is purposeful. If you are playing these
things because you don’t know how to play that is a whole different thing.
GM: Exactly, but that
was one of the arguments used when they try to evaluate Monk and his technique.
He is using a technique that is unique for the message he is trying to
communicate. You can’t assess him using a criteria because it doesn’t apply.
NOJ: I believe he heard things differently …
GM: That is precisely why he played differently and it took
people a long time to figure out exactly what was happening.
NOJ: Now, you hear his music and you know it is Monk and it
doesn’t sound wrong. It sounds natural to me.
GM: Yeah. Again we have these cultures being intertwined. Each culture is having to learn how the other one thinks and also give validation to (each other's) thought processes and admitting that while they are different these are valid, artistic musical statements. We have to be able to objectively deal with all that.
If we go back and
look at the whole history of (Western) music and how the church was involved,in
that rules were being laid out for composing sacred music. The Church said
this is how you write sacred music... which was to be nice and pleasing with no
room for dissonance. Bach came along and took notes that were not allowed to be
played at the same time and played them with counterpoint. He figured a clever way to use a tri-tone
which was previously not permitted.
When jazz comes
along, it is born out of the human experience. It is born from African culture
which has a lot to do with rhythms that occur in nature and rhythms that naturally
occur in how we move and how we flow and interact with each other. If you look
at the Tango for instance, based on the art of the dance, the syncopation, the
music has people moving and gyrating. A writer once wrote when syncopation got
into the music and started making its way from South America through New
Orlean’s into the United States, they called it the "Spanish tinge." They said it
was going to destroy civilization as we knew it.
NOJ: Of course,
anything different or out of the norm is going to destroy life as we know it for some people!
GM: Let’s go back and
look at the history of how all these things came about and came together and
jazz kind of fuses all of that. It becomes a palette from which we can paint.
NOJ: My perception of jazz is that it is the most
universally accepted common language. An unparalleled medium with which people can communicate no matter what
language they speak or what culture they are from.
GM: Check this out.
If you look at in this country, jazz is always introduced in port cities.
What happens in port cities? That is where the cultures combine. The other
thing to check out is what does jazz
represent? It represents freedom of expression, it represents democracy. If you
look anywhere in the world where democracy is introduced, jazz shows up every
single time. When the Iron Curtain fell in Russia it was the first thing you
saw blossom.
NOJ: Let’s talk about your music program at Emory. I hear
that colleges are cutting all kinds of liberal arts programs everywhere that
they can. How secure do you think non conservatory music programs are in
today’s environment?
GM: As a global
statement I would say there is cause for concern just because our general state
of the economy, but I think it is important to recognize that everything in our
society cannot be boiled down to being a
function of economics. We have to look
at those things that are going to give us other ways to be a stable society.
NOJ: How do we as advocates, whether we are
a student, a teacher, a musician or a writer; how do we convince the bean counters that
music has more value to society beyond it potential as a career path for those who want to make a
living as a musician?
GM: At this point I
treat it almost like being an insurance salesman. Imagine what this world be
like if we didn’t have it? I have literally said that to some people in my
administration, I have told them we are ambassadors; we give a face to the
University. Other advocates can go in
and be the frontrunners for those things that need to happen. I would say look at the state of the world right now,
then take away music. If you think it is bad now, this planet would blow up in a
week without music.
NOJ: It’s so true. Jazz and music in general is one of the
few international links that people can agree on.
GM: And that’s the thing , I teach it from the standpoint
that it is a language. It allows us to
communicates in a way that words don’t. If I go into a culture where I
don’t speak their language and they don’t speak mine, we still have this language
that moves us both. We don’t have to understand it beyond the fact that we both
like it and it speaks to us. Sometimes we as a society becomes too intellectual, or we don’t think at all. It’s important for us all to disseminate the important
role that the Arts plays. I talk about the idea that for my students it teaches
team building skills, leadership; it stimulates the whole creative process in
terms how they view things, how they process things and how they deal with
challenges. Having that part of the creative experience as part of your
intellect is absolutely necessary. We need people to think outside of the box.
With all the challenges that we are facing in the world people respond out of
fear, and fear is born out of a lack of understanding. Music and Art in general help us to try to
address things in the world around us because it is born from the world around
us and helps us understand it better.
NOJ: With all the many music schools and conservatories that
are turning out more and more very accomplished players, where are these
musicians going to play? The economics seem to be working against having a
successful career in music for all but a few elite. Venues are limited and the compensation is
sometimes non-existent.
GM: At a point it becomes a matter of survival and it’s
going to be survival of the fittest.
There are musicians out there who are not necessarily as good (as others), but who
have marketing skills and know how to navigate the system. That is sometimes a
business choice. It is not always just purely about the music. There are a lot of
guys who make those choices.
NOJ: How do the economics of making it as a professional
jazz musician speak to the long term viability of the survival of the art form?
GM: It is a tough one. I have a hard time, as much as I am
passionate about the music, it is not easy for me to recommend this path to
students. You would have to be incredibly honest with yourself as to why you
are doing it. If you don’t have a sense of mission or a calling for it, then
you might want to tell yourself this is fun but it is not necessarily a
profession I should follow.
NOJ: Where do you think the music is going? So many kids are
purely conservatory trained. There are not enough venues for them to get out
and play with peers and basically woodshed.
Do you think the music has become too technical and has lost its heart?
GM: I think we are in flux right now and I don’t know where
it will land. Technology plays a big role in that, because we don’t have as much face to face interaction like we
used. That is a challenge because kids need to go listen to live music and see
other players, but where can they go? You are not going to be able to speak the
language if you haven’t heard the language being spoken, which means you have
got to get out and converse with other musicians. Training is fine, but is it
going to say anything, is it going to move anybody by itself? Quite
honestly I don’t think so,
NOJ: How does a musician be true to the history but still
free himself to be creative in a way that is not solely derivative?
GM: I think that it is a matter of perspective. In the jazz
community we are always told, studying the works of the masters, pay your dues,
so to speak, which I think is a bit overstated. The point is in order to know
where you are going you have to know where you came from. To me what made them
Masters is that they took the information that came before them and they used it as
tools to be able to express what it was what they wanted to say. I think that
is the final step in the growth process of a jazz musician. Some people elect
to go out because they think they have some things on their mind and they want
to get out there and show the world. Others simply want to be able to just
sound like someone that they respect and then go out and assimilate hoping that
they will find their own voice that way.
NOJ: Is that enough of a worthy goal to sound like Stan Getz
or John Coltrane or Sonny Rollins?
GM: Only the individual can decide that. I don’t have the
right to tell someone to that they should go beyond. If I see a student with a
certain ability that maybe be edging toward breaking free, then certainly I am
going to encourage them. That becomes a
personal choice.
NOJ: What about for
you as a musician. What is your aim as a pianist?
GM: My goal is to go beyond. My aim is to take those things
and get to a place where
I can express what I want to express. Ironically, this is why I named my most
recent cd Departure, for that particular reason. It contains all my original
compositions and a couple of things that my wife wrote. I made a decision that
I am not going to record or publish any
more arrangements or performances of jazz standards until further notice. Every
trio under the sun have played these things, they are war horses. I'm not going to bring anything new to the
table.
NOJ: It is hard and yet every once in awhile, I hear
somebody do something that is a unique and different take.
GM: Well you know what, this is my point of Departure, at
this point I am going take those things that I have learned and just go in a
new direction and just see what I can accomplish.
NOJ: When you say that you are going in a new direction, how
are you accomplishing that? What is the change that you are making?
GM: The change that I
am making is I am writing, composing my own songs based on a concept that I
have in my mind. I mentioned
the inspiration of Bill Evans and a symphony orchestra, so when I am writing I am writing for the trio
and the orchestra that’s one of the different things that I am working on.
NOJ: The difference being the trio and the orchestra? Could
the trio without the orchestra still be making music with a different approach?
GM: It could, but in
this case I am trying to integrate the two so they are kind of co-dependent. So
the orchestra becomes this housing and the trio becomes the processor. It sends
out the signals to communicate to this other massive thing. Exploring colors
and textures to see what I can come up with. I always had a vivid imagination
about things. I know the story went like
this, but it could also have gone differently.
It can sometimes be a problem for my class because I improvise cadenzas
at the end of pieces and they tell me we know that is not the way it was
written, and I have to tell them, yeah but you don’t know he (the composer) might have had something like this in mind.
Growing up in the South, there are things that I have seen that I want to create
in music, just trying to come up with some different ideas about stuff.
There
are a couple things on Departure, for example there is a tricky little thing called “Times Up.” The title comes from playing “Hide and Go
Seek” as a kid. In the game when the
time is up you go searching for the person who is hiding. So what I did was
rather than playing the melody with the right hand I put it in the left hand,
it is a bass part, so that is the hidden part. So you have to search for the
melody. The chord progression that I
used is from Wayne Shorter’s ESP and then changed it up with a combination of a
Brazilian rhythm and a reggae groove. It just kind of came out that way. So it is taking all these things that I have
experienced and saying ok this is the
direction I want to go in and seeing what happens.
So it’s all part of where do
we go next; it’s like the bassist John Clayton said “You have to learn to walk
in the Master's footsteps.” You imitate and learn the path they have taken and then you
after that you get a chance to forge your own path.
NOJ: Who are your favorite contemporary pianists?
GM: I like Tamir Hendleman who
plays with drummer Jeff Hamilton. I like Brad Mehldau as a modern player. I
like Kenny Barron a lot. There is an Italian pianist Enrico Pieranunzi he is still in Italy, but he is one of those
guys that I like that a lot of people don’t know about him.
NOJ: You have had some big name
jazz players play at Schwartz Center for the Performing Arts.
How are you involved in getting these jazz concerts at Emory?
How are you involved in getting these jazz concerts at Emory?
GM: I am. I’m kind of a consultant. Bob McKay who
is the Director of the Center here at Emory, is the one who actually puts these
concerts together but we collaborate. Bob has his ear to the ground and pretty
well knows what is happening around the country. He is part of Association of Performing Arts Presenters so he goes
to the APAP conference. Between the two of us working together it gets
done.
NOJ: How do you think Atlanta shapes up as a jazz
destination? I see the concert tours and the artists seem to go to New York,
Washington, down to Florida and onto Texas but they seem to bypass
Atlanta. Why do you think that is?
GM: We definitely need more venues. I think the market is
here now. I think the radio, the way we are communicating with the public about
jazz in Atlanta is suffering right now. Starting with the radio station (WCLK) from the loss of having
independent jazz programming which is now automated, If you want to get your
jazz fix you have to go to the Internet and stream from somewhere, but it’s more
of a national thing, it syndicated and nice but it is not local. What I
would like to see for Atlanta is a citywide adoption of jazz as the art form it
deserves to be seen as. That’s why I
settled here.
NOJ: Atlanta has some venues for jazz. I have seen some
pretty good national acts come to the Velvet Note in Alpharetta and if the act
is big enough occasionally at Variety Playhouse in little five points, and then
there are local spots like Café 290 and Churchill Grounds.
GM: Yes there are these local venues.Then there is Emory, Spivey Hall at Clayton State University in Jonesboro ,GA and Georgia Tech has a theater .
NOJ: You’re going to be going to Cuba to play in January. Tell us about
that.
GM : It is a program called “Horns to Havana.” It was
started when Wynton Marsalis went to Cuba and they discovered that the students
there didn’t have the instruments they needed to play. The ones that they did have needed repair. So they started to raise money to purchase instruments and send them to the students. They would also send technicians down to Cuba to repair instruments. They organized concerts
and performances and outreach sort of things.
NOJ: Who will you be playing with on this trip?
GM: The leader will be with saxophonist Victor Goines. He just sent me the lineup for the rest of
the band. Justin Copeland is playing
trumpet, Adam Thornberg trombone, Emma Dayhoff bassist and Marion Felder is on
drums.
NOJ: It should be interesting to see the old Cuba before it
changes as it will inevitably will.
GM: When I went to Colombia I had the chance to fly in a
plane when there was no separation between the pilot and the passenger cabin. It
is like living in a time warp. That age of innocence which we no longer have
here in the US. I expect Cuba will be the same.
NOJ: What is your take on the Atlanta Jazz Festival? How do you think it can become one of the top jazz festivals in the world?
GM: I think one of the biggest things it is going to take is for people to recognize what we have here (in Atlanta.) We do have a large audience of
enthusiasts that can be nurtured and cultivated. You have to start with
acknowledging them, acknowledging the local musician community and then figuring out how to communicate to them. When we have quality shows at Emory people do show up so there is audience to tap into to here.
NOJ: Any more concerts coming up at Emory?
GM: Anat Cohn ( the jazz clarinetist) will be coming in February with my trio.
NOJ: I hear you will be getting an award soon?
GM: Yes I am being inducted into the Alabama Jazz Hall of
Fame on December 12, 2015. I am very honored. I will
join the ranks of Dinah Washington and
WC Handy and Ella Fitzgerald, even though she wasn’t from Alabama.
NOJ: Well congratulations Gary and thank you for sharing
some of your thoughts with us.
No comments:
Post a Comment